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Interviews with James Wanless PhD.

The Power of Intuition
An Interview with James Wanless, PhD
By Mike Richman
From Magical Blend, November 2002

Intuitive Leadership
An interview with James Wanless, Ph.D.
By Denise Marts

The Power of Intuition

An Interview with James Wanless, PhD
By Mike Richman
From Magical Blend, November 2002

James Wanless’ latest book, Intuition@Work (Red Wheel/Weiser), is a perfect tool for anyone seeking to bring a little magic, fun, and creativity into their office – or just their life. The creator of the unique Voyager Tarot Deck, Jim relies on the principle that people must feel their feelings and then act on them. He filled us in on the importance of dreams, the nature of intuitive leadership, and why fear can be your friend.

MR: A long-standing paradigm of modern thought is that dreaming is for loafers. You seem to have a different perspective on that. How does one assign a value to the act of dreaming?
JW: Wow, what an opening question! You have to have a dream, and whether it’s a waking day dream or a night dream doesn’t make any difference. It’s there that the real, true inner genius comes up, usually in a metaphoric way. The problem is that we don’t trust it! We wake up in the morning and say, “I had this great dream, but…but…but…in the light of day, I don’t think it makes rational sense.” So most of the time, even though we’re all dreamers, we don’t act on our dreams. I have a quote in Intuition@Work from Johann Sebastian Bach, who says, “The problem is not finding melodies, it’s when getting up in the morning and getting out of bed, not stepping on them.”

MR: There’s another great quote in your book from one of my favorite authors, Anais Nin, “We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.” Can we sharpen self-knowledge in order to improve our intuition in life and work?
JW: Yes, I think that knowing yourself is critical to the intuitive way of creating. For me, there are three general personality types. The first is the positive person, who says, “It’s all good.” They have a tendency to feel everything from that Pollyanna point of view. Now, that may not be the reality at all; it might be a lot darker than that, but they’re going to see it and project that onto it, and be quite inaccurate, really, in many situations. The flip side of that is the negative person, the critic, the judge, who’s defending their ego by putting things down and saying, “That can’t work” and “You can’t do that.” And that may be totally inaccurate. Then there’s what I call “The Harmonizer.” That’s the person who basically wants to be agreeable, so they tend to follow along. But, hey, where’s the reality in that? They avoid their real inner core sense of knowing who they really are. So, to me, an intuitively responsible or developed person is one who does a little bit of inner psychology, a little bit of inner work, and knows where they’re coming from.

MR: How can someone who is still developing their intuition tap into that, especially given that today’s workplace is so stressful?
JW: Well, that’s exactly why I think that intuition is so valuable in today’s workplace, because of all the stress, the speed, the uncertainty, the changeability, and the complexity. I just use a simple little mantra: “Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, how do I really feel about this situation?” You can do that ten times a day, one time, fifty, I don’t know, but it only takes a minute, literally (laughs). The key to this whole thing is being aware of the feelings. Most of the time, we try to think our way through, and we get in the morass of paralysis through analysis. That’s what slows the whole pro-cessss downnnnnn. Because there are so many possibilities, options, and to think about them all at once is overwhelming. That’s the hardest part because we are so mental and so “in our brains,” thinking our way through. But intuition says, “Don’t think. Feel.”

MR: Does work have to be work in your opinion?
JW: (Laughs) I try not to make it work. When it’s “work” work, I always go into that Zen practice of chop wood, carry water. What I advise people is to take an hour of your workday, or half an hour, or some period of time, and just follow your feelings. Do everything that it feels like you want to do at that moment, and just follow the feeling. Look at the way a butterfly goes from flower to flower. It doesn’t go in a straight line. It doesn’t say to itself, “Oh, I have to do this, and go over here.” It’s not linear. If you look at the way that nature works, it’s going here, then over there, down here, up there, boom-boom-boom. It’s just following the feeling. And that’s so much more fun, because all of a sudden you find yourself flying.

MR: It is fun. You speak in the book about an intuitive or spiritual kind of leadership. I have a two-part question for you: First, what are the qualities of an intuitive-type of leader; and second, do you really think that we, as a culture, overrate the importance of leadership?
JW: Yes, good question! I like that, overrating leadership! (laughs) Very cool, on light of all the leadership books that are out there right now. To me, spiritual leadership is ultimately like the Tao of work. It’s kind of hands-off management, which means that a good leader is one that really empowers their people to trust their own intuition and come from their own inner authority, believe in their own inner power, take the initiative, and be responsible. That is what real leadership is – giving people the tools, the training, and the confidence that they can do it without always having to go to their supervisor and check up on every little thing. It’s really empowering this genius within you. What a great spiritual leader does is find ways to get people to believe in themselves and take charge of themselves. So in a way, I do think that leadership is overrated, because everybody should be their own leader. A great leader is one that inspires people to trust their own gut, their own heart, their own intuition. It’s really empowering people to follow their own authority.

MR: Were you ever in a position where you said, “This is wrong. I’m just at a dead-end here. I’m not doing what I want to be doing”?
JW: Oh yes. I have a Ph.D. in political science from Columbia University, and when I first started teaching, I was not happy. I was voted professor of the year, but I was not happy. It was not authentic for me, so I just said, “I’ve got to get out of here.” I didn’t know where I was going, but I left anyway! It was kind of a dark night of the soul for me, a journey into the mystery. It takes a lot of courage to find our way, but that’s the hero’s journey. It’s finding yourself.

MR: And fear is just part of the bargain?
JW: As a matter of fact, if you’re not feeling fear going into it, then you’re not really living. To know fear is a great, great resource, because it’s stimulation. Whew, but there’s energy there!

MR: What keeps on coming up in my mind as I’m listening to your responses is the word “trust”. It takes a lot of trust in oneself, I guess.
JW: Right. That comes back to the whole spiritual dimension. If you don’t have a spiritually-cased understanding of life, or yourself, I don’t see how you can trust. It’s a basic kind of thing, a belief that there’s a guiding force in your life that is the proper one to follow, and that it’s inside of you; it’s not something outside of you. For me, the ABCs of intuition are, “A”, have an Awareness of the feeling, “B”, Believe in it and trust it, and “C”, have the Courage to act on it. So it’s really about intuitional living and working for spiritual warriors, people who have broken through the regime of outside authority and are now trusting their own and having the courage to follow it, like me leaving my work.

MR: I’d like to bring technology into this a little bit. Some might say that technology runs somewhat counter to intuition and the intuitive process. Would you agree with that statement?
JW: Hmmm….why would technology run counter to the intuitive process?

MR: Well, because it locks us into a very rational bottom-line, black and white framework.
JW: Yes, absolutely. It seems that it’s all planned and it’s all logical, because we can do these computer simulations on everything. I was just reading recently about an insurance company that runs 10,000 computer simulations for every decision they make. The CEO said, “But, at the end of the day, we make an intuitive decision.” You can’t use all of that input, it’s too much. That’s the problem with technology – it can be overwhelming and complex. On the one hand, technology is great, because certainly you get a lot of information fast, but on the other hand, it’s too much. That’s when you get paralysis by analysis. Look at scientists today. The more research they do into the mysteries of nature and the universe, the more they realize that there’s some mysterious life force that they can’t quantify. I think it’s the same thing with technology and technologists. At some point, they say, “Wait a minute, this is beyond our ability to comprehend,” and they go with the gut, with the heart.

MR: Right. You speak to that in the book, when you talk about “following the nose”. That’s a great piece of advice. If your senses tell you it’s right, then it must be right, and that’s intuition.
JW: Right. And I think a lot of Silicon-Valley-type businesses whether they’re still in business or not, at one point, just followed their nose toward the hot idea, or at least, the one that was hot for them. Then they went and wrote the business plan on the back of the envelope. They just followed the thing that gave them a charge. They didn’t really rationally think it all out. I think that the hunch is the key; follow the hunch, and then begin to flesh it out with some thinking, with some logic. But ultimately, even when you have a bunch of logical options, it’s the one that feels the best that gets the energy. There are no inherently “right” decisions; it’s all subjective. So ultimately, it all comes right back to intuition.

Intuitive Leadership

An interview with James Wanless, Ph.D. By Denise Marts

Denise: James Wanless is a pioneer of new thinking for organizational and personal transformation, motivation, and empowerment. He has reinvented the timeless principles of tarot into a modern paradigm and tool through his best-selling Voyager Tarot Deck as well as numerous books on classical and New Age tarot. An entrepreneur and futurist, James Wanless is a sought-after speaker who counsels and trains throughout the world on the art and strategy of designing the future.

Your work over the last two decades has been focused primarily in the area of intuitive development and the use of tarot as a tool in that area of personal growth. As we move into the next century and new millennium, your emphasis seems to be shifting from intuitive development to the specific, strategic application of intuition to the everyday business of living in all areas of our personal and professional lives.

As we find ourselves in the midst of unprecedented change, the leadership models of the past, based upon traditional masculine values, continue to erode. The need for conscious, balanced leadership is now central not only to our individual well-being, but also for our survival as a species. The term "leadership" is still largely associated with traditional masculine characteristics of extroversion, assertion, defining and controlling outcomes, etc. The concept of "intuitive leadership" is intriguing in that it does not appear to negate the masculine dimension of leadership, but rather integrates feminine, intuitive qualities for a more balanced approach to leadership. How do you view leadership in the 21st century?

James: Leadership is changing. It is changing from the military-industrial hierarchical model of "chain of command" to a more consensual and empathic process. Leaders, now, must walk in the shoes of those they lead. They must know what others are feeling and what they aspire to. They must be able to effectively communicate, which requires the ability to listen as well as to inspire. Leaders must offer a vision and a practical plan that others must also share and believe in. Leadership becomes almost a kind of "followership," which in good Taoist fashion means to lead in a way such that the led don't feel that they are being led. It's almost like a Zen koan. Indeed, things have become reversed.

Denise: What is the role of the feminine in leadership?

James: Huge! Women are on the ascent. Did you know that three of the six auto divisions at the male corporate bastion, General Motors, are now led by a woman? Women lead differently than men. Women lead more from the heart, not from abstract ideas. With an open and compassionate heart, women administer to people in service of their feelings and their growth. Her leadership is people-oriented and toward what "feels right." She is the heartfelt conscience of the human psyche. Systems and flow charts are not her thing. Women lead through nurturing rather than authority, not governing by decree, but by guiding, mentoring, and facilitating. But let's not be fooled, women leaders are no soft pushovers. They can engage in tough love and be warriors in the defense of the common quest without dominating others, however.


Denise: With all due respect, I have to say that what you are describing sounds more like a stereotypical ideal than an actuality. I would suggest that, in reality, women are assimilated into male-dominated socioeconomic-political systems and essentially masculinized in the process, though this is an important and valid step for many women in need of developing their masculine energies.

James: I agree that all this may seem like an idealized version of female leadership, but it is true from my experience. Leadership, for me, is not confined to only business and politics, but to family, to relationships, and to one's own self-governance. It is undoubtedly true that women are often co-opted by the old male style of rule in corporations and institutions, but within other arenas of life, there seems to me to be a definitive female style of leadership.

I know this from my mother and my female friends, as well as by how I see women function, which is often, as I work predominantly with women. They are my clientele in the tarot and intuition field. The key is, can women take their natural modus operandi into the larger organizational world? In some cases, but it's difficult at best. The work I have done on intuition in the corporate world has been almost uniformly sponsored by female-run companies.

Denise: What is the role of intuition in leadership?

James: Imperative! In this fast-paced world of change, complexity, and uncertainty, only our intuition can keep up, be comprehensive enough, and manage the unknowns brought about by change. In fact, studies have shown that the most successful CEOs, for example, in business are highly intuitive. And as intuition is ultimately a feeling, it's an empathic ability to feel what another is feeling, and that is how people are moved, by their emotional connection with a leader. Intuition is also the core of innovation, and in this day and age, creativity is the name of the game, so great leaders "feel it and follow it." That women seem to be more trusting of their feelings is a big reason for the emergence of effective female leaders.

Denise: There is a developing opinion among some observers of the New Thought movement that patriarchal systems, due to their feminine-denying nature and inherent state of imbalance, cannot be transformed by integration with the feminine. The introduction of authentic, full-bodied femininity is so destabilizing and subversive to the established order that it cannot be tolerated.
Rather, the old structures must be allowed to fall of their own weight, while new structures founded upon balance by balanced men and women, over time, replace the old, outdated ones. Historical precedents for this line of thought can be seen in the fact that the founding fathers, for example, did not attempt to transform monarchy; they simply rejected it and established democracy in its place. During the Reformation, the Catholic Church was not reformed, but, rather, new religious alternatives were created. How do you see the balance being struck?
James: Integrating the feminine ethos into institutional America will be resisted, but it’s fighting a losing battle. Eventually, the old-world male ways will simply wither away, for they are simply out of sync with the emergent 21st-century world and its values. In some instances, however, successful balance will occur, and this will happen when the male leadership has also embraced female values and ways.

Indeed, there are a few male leaders who are balanced. In particular, I am paying close attention to what happens at a mega-company like Hewlett-Packard. Its CEO, a real people-person, has recently retired, and he was greatly supportive of intuitive decision-making, which is really following one's feelings. Will his female successor live up to and even perpetuate this evolution towards a feminine way of management that espouses "emotional intelligence"?

I agree that women, rather than trying to teach an old dog new tricks, should just go ahead and do their own thing. In fact, this seems to be happening. Women-owned businesses in the U.S. have a greater gross product than the entire economy of unified Germany! I feel that what we will be seeing is a blurring mix of leadership styles, an ambiguity and diversity that mirrors the nature of our changing times. If I had to bet, I would place my money on the "feminization" of leadership. Why? Because we are moving towards a greater state of personalized business, and of small business bringing together voluntary alliances of individuals. In this situation, empathy, communication, and consensus co-creativity rule.

For me an intriguing question is, Can men change? They must. There is no real choice if you really look at the economic and political dynamics. But we guys can be dense and dogmatic. Certainly, men have the capacity to lead and manage in more nurturing, intuitive, and growth-promoting ways. I even know some. But they need support, encouragement, and results! I actually view my work as taking what I have learned from women and transporting it to men. It takes strong male role models with credibility to be effective at this transformation, however. Ultimately, it's the results that will sway the tides of change, but interestingly, results may be evaluated differently. There may be a newly emergent bottom line, one that values health and happiness and meaning as much as dollars and cents.

What I would really love to see is an integration of the male-female styles of living through a neutral and all-inclusive paradigm and set of values. That model, for me, is nature. The natural world is both masculine and feminine, straight and curved, hard and soft, scientific and intuitive. Nature has survived and thrived for billions of years. It's our greatest success role model. My unpublished Nature Cards attempt to show just that. What a life it would be if we were to mirror nature's "both-and" ways! Follow the example of how a tree leads itself and grows from seed to fruit, continually renewing itself, living in a cyclical manner. How exciting that would be, to use the so-called male energy to branch out and break through in an expansive manner and do the so-called feminine thing of going inwards in the winter, into the dark earth, to be fruitful and fallow.

Denise: How does intuitive leadership ultimately affect the way we conduct our personal and professional lives?

James: Greatly! When we listen to our inner voice, we are acting from our core of authenticity. We are being true to ourselves. This is why so many of us refuse to work for others: we are self-led, doing our own thing, our own business in our own way. The intuitive way results in a greater individualism in which we can truly express our unique gifts and realize our unique destinies. Intuitive living also means greater respect for another and their truth, hence the change toward consensual and synergistic co-creation and co-leadership.

Intuition, as a feeling, demands emotional intelligence — feeling our feelings — and this is a fundamental shift in how we live, away from the thinking logical mind, which is too linear, slow, and exclusive for today's world, to an openhearted, emotive way. This shakes up the entire system, from education to business to governance, in how we proceed. Intuition, I feel, is the human technology that must come along to mirror and match our outer material technologies. It's really our savior, for we humans are in danger of being outworn and outpaced by our machines, which think faster than our own minds.

James Wanless Ph.D.
Within U.S 800.676.1256  Outside U.S. 001-831-659-3737
PO box 1227  Carmel, California  93921
E-mail: jameswanless@comcast.net




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